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	<title>Overlawyered &#187; Will Baude</title>
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	<description>Chronicling the high cost of our legal system</description>
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		<title>Farewell</title>
		<link>http://overlawyered.com/2003/09/farewell/</link>
		<comments>http://overlawyered.com/2003/09/farewell/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Sep 2003 19:49:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Will Baude</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Uncategorized]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[guestbloggers]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/wpblog/?p=265</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I just wanted to give my thanks to Mr. Olson for letting me post a few things here about the law, both within and without the usual range of this blog.  If you&#8217;d like to read more of my posts, you&#8217;ll find me at Crescat Sententia.

As a parting consideration, consider this detailed post from [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just wanted to give my thanks to Mr. Olson for letting me post a few things here about the law, both within and without the usual range of this blog.  If you&#8217;d like to read more of my posts, you&#8217;ll find me at <a href="http://baude.blogspot.com">Crescat Sententia</a>.</p>
<p><span id="more-265"></span><br />
As a parting consideration, consider <a href="http://appellateblog.blogspot.com/2003_09_01_appellateblog_archive.html#106244916906948812">this detailed post from How Appealling </a>on the juvenile death penalty.  Thanks again to all the readers who wrote in, and to Walter Olson.<br />
Farewell.</p>

	Tags: <a href="http://overlawyered.com/tag/guestbloggers/" title="guestbloggers" rel="tag">guestbloggers</a><br />

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	<li><a href="http://overlawyered.com/2011/07/welcome-guestblogger-ron-coleman/" title="Welcome guestblogger Ron Coleman (July 5, 2011)">Welcome guestblogger Ron Coleman</a> (3)</li>
	<li><a href="http://overlawyered.com/2008/05/the-asbestos-litigation-machine/" title="The asbestos litigation machine (May 7, 2008)">The asbestos litigation machine</a> (2)</li>
	<li><a href="http://overlawyered.com/2006/02/thanks-warren/" title="Thanks, Warren (February 23, 2006)">Thanks, Warren</a> (0)</li>
	<li><a href="http://overlawyered.com/2004/06/thanks-to-mike-debow/" title="Thanks to Mike DeBow&#8230; (June 29, 2004)">Thanks to Mike DeBow&#8230;</a> (0)</li>
</ul>

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		<title>Other News</title>
		<link>http://overlawyered.com/2003/09/other-news/</link>
		<comments>http://overlawyered.com/2003/09/other-news/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Sep 2003 01:46:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Will Baude</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Uncategorized]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/wpblog/?p=263</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[
]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://appellateblog.blogspot.com/2003_08_01_appellateblog_archive.html#106238884157121771">Howard Bashman</a>, the other great source for law-related news on the web, is back and blogging.</p>
No tags for this post.
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	<li>No related posts.</li>
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		<title>Children and the Law</title>
		<link>http://overlawyered.com/2003/08/children-and-the-law/</link>
		<comments>http://overlawyered.com/2003/08/children-and-the-law/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 Aug 2003 05:05:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Will Baude</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[family law]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Louisiana]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Missouri]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/wpblog/?p=260</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[
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			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is a trifle off-topic, but a pair of posts by Amanda Butler highlight some intriguing issues about the way the law treats children, an issue I touched on briefly in<a href="http://www.overlawyered.com/archives/000266.html"> a previous post </a>on voting ages.  <a href="http://baude.blogspot.com/2003_08_01_baude_archive.html#106209458391923222">Here is one post </a>on <a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2003/08/28/national/28BRFS2.html">Patrick Kennedy</a>, sentenced to death for raping a child, and <a href="http://baude.blogspot.com/2003_08_01_baude_archive.html#106203802714140818">here is another</a>, about <a href="http://www.amnestyusa.org/news/2003/usa08262003.html">a decision </a>by the Missouri Supreme Court that it is unconstitutional to execute murderers under the age of 18.</p>
<p><span id="more-260"></span><br />
Of course, these decisions don&#8217;t contradict one another at all, but they do betray an interesting theme in the law&#8217;s treatment of children.  The Kennedy case is interesting because the Supreme Court has already held (in <a href="http://www2.law.cornell.edu/cgi-bin/foliocgi.exe/historic/query=[Group+433+U!2ES!2E+584!3A]^[Group+citemenu!3A]^[Level+Case+Citation!3A]^[Group+notes!3A]/doc/{@1}/hit_headings/words=4/hits_only?firsthit">Coker v. Georgia</a>) that the death penalty cannot constitutionally be applied for the rape of an adult woman.  The Louisiana decision, if it stands, will mark a decision that children need more protection from the law than adults do.<br />
Similarly, the Missouri case, if it becomes the law of the land, will do for juveniles what <a href="http://supct.law.cornell.edu/supct/search/display.html?terms=coker%20v%20georgia&#038;url=/supct/html/00-8452.ZO.html">Atkins v. Virginia </a>did for the mentally retarded.  This, too, is based on a decision that juveniles are less culpable for their actions.<br />
What&#8217;s intriguing about this trend (if these two examples do mark a trend) is that it doesn&#8217;t seem to be tracking some shift in public opinion or understanding.  So far as I know, most people don&#8217;t think kids today are less culpable, less able to defend themselves, or less autonomous than kids of previous generations were.  If anything, the perception is the reverse.  This will be a path of the law worth watching.<br />
UPDATE: <a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2003/08/31/national/31EXEC.html">The New York Times continues </a>to handle the controversy.</p>
<p>CORRECTION: The crime involved in Coker v. Georgia was incorrectly stated in the original version of this post.  We&#8217;ve corrected it.</p>

	Tags: <a href="http://overlawyered.com/tag/family-law/" title="family law" rel="tag">family law</a>, <a href="http://overlawyered.com/tag/louisiana/" title="Louisiana" rel="tag">Louisiana</a>, <a href="http://overlawyered.com/tag/missouri/" title="Missouri" rel="tag">Missouri</a><br />

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	<li><a href="http://overlawyered.com/2005/09/army-corps-sued-over-levee-building/" title="Army Corps sued over levee-building (September 9, 2005)">Army Corps sued over levee-building</a> (0)</li>
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</ul>

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		<item>
		<title>News from Far Off</title>
		<link>http://overlawyered.com/2003/08/news-from-far-off/</link>
		<comments>http://overlawyered.com/2003/08/news-from-far-off/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Aug 2003 18:45:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Will Baude</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[attorneys general]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Australia]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[ethics]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/wpblog/?p=259</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[
]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Down Under, <a href="http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2003/08/29/1062050663338.html">Victoria&#8217;s Attorney General has come out </a>in favor of a pretty far-reaching set of legal reforms designed to protect consumers:</p>
<blockquote><p>While it is appropriate that justice is blind, that does not mean the Bracks Government is blind to the needs of the Victorian public.</p></blockquote>

	Tags: <a href="http://overlawyered.com/tag/attorneys-general/" title="attorneys general" rel="tag">attorneys general</a>, <a href="http://overlawyered.com/tag/australia/" title="Australia" rel="tag">Australia</a>, <a href="http://overlawyered.com/tag/ethics/" title="ethics" rel="tag">ethics</a><br />

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</ul>

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		<item>
		<title>Ethical Efficacy</title>
		<link>http://overlawyered.com/2003/08/ethical-efficacy/</link>
		<comments>http://overlawyered.com/2003/08/ethical-efficacy/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Aug 2003 05:17:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Will Baude</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[ethics]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/wpblog/?p=255</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[
]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>With some inspiration from <a href="http://www.law.com/jsp/article.jsp?id=1061487933540">an article </a>at a<a href="http://www.overlawyered.com/archives/000259.html"> previous Overlawyered post</a>, David Giacalone <a href="http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/ethicalesq/2003/08/27#a229">is inquiring into whether ethics classes make one more ethical</a>.</p>

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</ul>

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		<item>
		<title>One vote- One Man?</title>
		<link>http://overlawyered.com/2003/08/one-vote-one-man/</link>
		<comments>http://overlawyered.com/2003/08/one-vote-one-man/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Aug 2003 01:05:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Will Baude</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Uncategorized]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[videogames]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/wpblog/?p=250</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Numerous proposals abound to extend the right to vote to children of any age.  Micah Schwartzman thinks it&#8217;s a questionable idea, but stops short of condemning it entirely.  He asks:
Place yourself in the original position and ask: if I didn?t know how old I would be when the veil is lifted, what principles [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://www.brown.edu/Students/Association_for_Childrens_Suffrage/faq.html">Numerous</a> <a href="http://society.guardian.co.uk/print/0,3858,4599961-107865,00.html">proposals</a> <a href="http://www.childwelfare.com/kids/kidsvote.htm">abound </a>to extend the right to vote to <i>children of any age</i>.  <a href="http://www.crookedtimber.org/archives/000408.html">Micah Schwartzman thinks </a>it&#8217;s a questionable idea, but stops short of condemning it entirely.  He asks:</p>
<blockquote><p>Place yourself in the original position and ask: if I didn?t know how old I would be when the veil is lifted, what principles of political representation would I favor? One-(adult) person, one vote?</p></blockquote>
<p><span id="more-250"></span><br />
Now, I have always thought this was a silly intellectual exercise.  If I didn&#8217;t know how old I was, I also wouldn&#8217;t know what I thought about a lot of things.  When I was younger I thought some things, and now that I&#8217;m older (but not that old!) I think some other things.  When I&#8217;m 30, 40, 50, I&#8217;m sure I&#8217;ll think some other things.  So I&#8217;m skeptical about our ability to honestly place ourselves behind a veil of ignorance in such an unfalsifiable enterprise.<br />
Should children be allowed to vote?  Schwartzman makes a good argument against &#8220;Voting by proxy&#8221;&#8211; that is, letting parents vote on behalf of their children&#8211; but doesn&#8217;t really deal with whether we ought to allow children to vote outright.  Would 3-year-olds toddle <i>en masse</i> to the booth to support Cookie Monster?  It seems unlikely.  On the other hand, consider <a href="http://www.ca7.uscourts.gov/op3.fwx?yr=00&#038;num=3643&#038;Submit1=Request+Opinion">this argument from Richard Posner in a 2001 opinion </a>overturning Indianapolis&#8217;s video game ban:</p>
<blockquote><p>Children have First Amendment rights.  This is not merely a matter of pressing the First Amendment to a dryly logical extreme. The murderous fanaticism displayed by young German soldiers in World War II, alumni of the Hitler Jugend, illustrates the danger of allowing government to control the access of children to information and opinion. Now that eighteen-year-olds have the right to vote, it is obvious that they must be allowed the freedom to form their political views on the basis of uncensored speech before they turn eighteen, so that their minds are not a blank when they first exercise the franchise. And since an eighteen-year-old&#8217;s right to vote is a right personal to him rather than a right to be exercised on his behalf by his parents, the right of parents to enlist the aid of the state to shield their children from ideas of which the parents disapprove cannot be plenary either. People are unlikely to become well-functioning, independent-minded adults and responsible citizens if they are raised in an intellectual bubble.</p></blockquote>
<p>Judge Posner&#8217;s argument is that children ought to be allowed freedom of conscience before they are allowed freedom of franchise, to ensure that they exercise that franchise intelligently.  But consider the difficulties of deciding&#8211; whether on a large scale or a small one&#8211; when people are &#8220;ready&#8221; to exercise their right to control the lives of others.  In the end, it&#8217;s a mess.<br />
I would have been just as good (or as bad) a voter at the age of 16 as at the age of 20.  While it makes sense to keep the right to vote the same as the obligation to be tried as an adult, what should we do given how many jurisdictions now try select troublemakers as adults?  Maybe we should allow select children the right to vote as well.</p>

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</ul>

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		<item>
		<title>Free Congress: McConnell v. McGuiness</title>
		<link>http://overlawyered.com/2003/08/free-congress-mcconnell-v-mcguiness/</link>
		<comments>http://overlawyered.com/2003/08/free-congress-mcconnell-v-mcguiness/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Aug 2003 00:38:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Will Baude</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Uncategorized]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/wpblog/?p=249</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[
]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Is litigation weakening American Culture?  <a href="http://www.freecongress.org/misc/030410KM.asp">Kevin McGuiness says no (see update)</a> but <a href="http://www.freecongress.org/misc/030410MM.asp">Senator Mitch McConnell says yes</a>.  (Via <a href="http://southernappeal.blogspot.com/2003_08_24_southernappeal_archive.html#106200568245466081">Southern Appeal</a>)</p>
<p><span id="more-249"></span><br />
Update:  The McGuiness piece isn&#8217;t inconsistent with the idea that something needs to be reformed about litigation, but it does seem (at least to me) much friendlier about litigation, and the overhauls that McGuiness proposes seem less fundamental than those Senator McConnell suggests, and his piece spends more time talking about fixing the system and less talking about what&#8217;s wrong with it entirely.  But it&#8217;s wrong of me to try to cast them as inhabiting opposite sides of the litigation coin.</p>
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		<title>Trash</title>
		<link>http://overlawyered.com/2003/08/trash/</link>
		<comments>http://overlawyered.com/2003/08/trash/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Aug 2003 23:59:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Will Baude</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Uncategorized]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[broadcasters]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[California]]></category>

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		<description><![CDATA[(Registration Required): Citizens of Riverside are considering suing because the OC called them &#8220;White Trash&#8221; but Eugene Volokh thinks that they have no chance.

	Tags: broadcasters, California

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	Worker&#8217;s [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>(Registration Required): <a href="http://www.pe.com/localnews/riverside/stories/PE_NEWS_nrtheoc26.a128c.html">Citizens of Riverside are considering suing </a>because the OC called them &#8220;White Trash&#8221; but <a href="http://volokh.com/2003_08_24_volokh_archive.html#106202221560001649">Eugene Volokh thinks </a>that they have no chance.</p>

	Tags: <a href="http://overlawyered.com/tag/broadcasters/" title="broadcasters" rel="tag">broadcasters</a>, <a href="http://overlawyered.com/tag/california/" title="California" rel="tag">California</a><br />

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	<li><a href="http://overlawyered.com/2008/08/wounded-in-shootout-sheriffs-deputies-sue-widow/" title="Wounded in shootout, sheriff&#8217;s deputies sue widow (August 21, 2008)">Wounded in shootout, sheriff&#8217;s deputies sue widow</a> (13)</li>
	<li><a href="http://overlawyered.com/2010/08/workers-comp-in-california/" title="Worker&#8217;s comp in California (August 24, 2010)">Worker&#8217;s comp in California</a> (1)</li>
</ul>

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		<title>Beware of Dog</title>
		<link>http://overlawyered.com/2003/08/beware-of-dog/</link>
		<comments>http://overlawyered.com/2003/08/beware-of-dog/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Aug 2003 06:35:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Will Baude</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Uncategorized]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[animals]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Illinois]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/wpblog/?p=243</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Illinois has passed a new dog law, which seems like a really complicated solution to a fairly simple problem.
Nick Tarasen of &#8220;Chicago Report&#8221; explains (pretty convincingly) why he thinks that the law is a bad idea.

	Tags: animals, Illinois

	Related posts
	
	Update: garden-center bird attack (1)
	&#8220;Student Sues Illinois University After Deer Attack&#8221; (8)
	&#8220;Lawsuit: Shopping Center Aided Attacking Squirrel&#8221; [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://www.pioneerlocal.com/cgi-bin/ppo-story/localnews/current/ma/08-27-03-94680.html">Illinois has passed a new dog law</a>, which seems like a really complicated solution to a fairly simple problem.<br />
Nick Tarasen of &#8220;Chicago Report&#8221; <a href="http://www.chicagoreport.net/archives/000470.php">explains (pretty convincingly) why he thinks </a>that the law is a bad idea.</p>

	Tags: <a href="http://overlawyered.com/tag/animals/" title="animals" rel="tag">animals</a>, <a href="http://overlawyered.com/tag/illinois/" title="Illinois" rel="tag">Illinois</a><br />

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	<li><a href="http://overlawyered.com/2006/05/student-sues-illinois-university-after-deer-attack/" title="&#8220;Student Sues Illinois University After Deer Attack&#8221; (May 31, 2006)">&#8220;Student Sues Illinois University After Deer Attack&#8221;</a> (8)</li>
	<li><a href="http://overlawyered.com/2006/08/lawsuit-shopping-center-aided-attacking-squirrel/" title="&#8220;Lawsuit: Shopping Center Aided Attacking Squirrel&#8221; (August 21, 2006)">&#8220;Lawsuit: Shopping Center Aided Attacking Squirrel&#8221;</a> (4)</li>
	<li><a href="http://overlawyered.com/2009/08/zoo-fall-blamed-on-splashy-dolphins/" title="Zoo fall blamed on splashy dolphins (August 20, 2009)">Zoo fall blamed on splashy dolphins</a> (9)</li>
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</ul>

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		<title>Ladies Man</title>
		<link>http://overlawyered.com/2003/08/ladies-man/</link>
		<comments>http://overlawyered.com/2003/08/ladies-man/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Aug 2003 06:21:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Will Baude</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Uncategorized]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[emotional distress]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/wpblog/?p=242</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Col. Kassem Saleh has apparently been making himself a little too popular with the ladies.  It&#8217;s a fascinating question of whether one can get in trouble for &#8220;just talking&#8221; if one didn&#8217;t actually engage in any harassment at all.  Indeed, the women seem to be complaining that they wanted more Saleh, not less.

Update: [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Col. Kassem Saleh <a href="http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/news/082503_nw_theif_of_hearts.html">has apparently been making himself </a>a little too popular with the ladies.  It&#8217;s a fascinating question of whether one can get in trouble for &#8220;just talking&#8221; if one didn&#8217;t actually engage in any harassment at all.  Indeed, the women seem to be complaining that they wanted more Saleh, not less.</p>
<p><span id="more-242"></span><br />
Update:  If the above is a little unclear, I don&#8217;t mean to imply that Saleh is being charged with harassment.  But what&#8217;s intriguing about this case is that Saleh is getting in trouble pretty much for the content of his emails, even though the things he said to the women didn&#8217;t upset him, it was the sense of abandonment they had later.<br />
This isn&#8217;t an unheard-of legal theory (though I&#8217;m no expert in common-law marriage, breach of promise to marry, or the tort of seduction), especially since it&#8217;s a &#8220;conduct unbecoming of an officer&#8221; charge.  So it isn&#8217;t precisely an example of litigation gone rampant in our society, but it does seem to be pushing just a bit against the bounds of comfort.</p>

	Tags: <a href="http://overlawyered.com/tag/emotional-distress/" title="emotional distress" rel="tag">emotional distress</a><br />

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	<li><a href="http://overlawyered.com/2004/05/update-not-the-date-they-expected/" title="Update: not the date they expected (May 26, 2004)">Update: not the date they expected</a> (0)</li>
</ul>

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